Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » sam. sept. 14, 2019 5:21 pm

Dans les Risklands (Dorastor), Ernalda tombe à 20%:
https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9966 ... ent=148056

De toutes façons, vu les multiples facettes d'Ernalda, les initiés d'Ernalda ne forment sûrement pas un bloc homogène.

Sans compter ses différentes "vies" avec ses multiples époux!
Rappel des principaux:
The Husband-Protectors

Wherever Ernalda is found, her local husbands give her a Rune spell as protection. Orlanth is always one of Ernalda’s husbands, but in many places he shares that honor with one or more of the following deities. In Esrolia, all the following husband-deities are present; Ernalda’s priestesses there gain Rune spells from all.

Orlanth: Orlanth is universally worshiped as Ernalda’s husband, even among people who do not worship Orlanth.

Argan Argar: Argan Argar is only worshiped as Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and among the rare Darkness-worshiping cultures that respect the Earth deities.

Flamal: Flamal is worshiped as Ernalda’s husband primarily among the elves.

Magasta: Magasta is Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and in some island cultures.

Storm Bull: The Storm Bull is worshiped as Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and by the rare Ernalda worshipers of the Wastes.

Yelmalio: A minority of the tribes in Dragon Pass and the south Pelorian hills worships Yelmalio as one of Ernalda's husbands.

She's got others as well. In Saird, she is known to count Lodril AND Yelm among her husbands - along with Orlanth.
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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par kridenow » sam. sept. 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Que Urox soit adoré comme mari d'Ernalda ne veut pas dire que les femmes deviennent initiées d'Urox en rompant leur lien avec le culte d'Ernalda pour mettre des casques à cornes et chercher des walktapi à abattre.
Les femmes sartarites considèrent quand même assez fortement que Orlanth est l'époux d'Ernalda, pour autant, vous avez vu beaucoup de femmes prêtresses d'Orlanth?
Les époux sont les époux, le culte d'Ernalda peut localement reconnaître ou privilégier tel ou tel mais cela ne change rien (cela en fait un culte associé qui accordera un peu de magie, au mieux).
Jusqu'à présent, le culte d'Ernalda, c'est la vie des femmes sartarites. Même les options que vous évoquez en font partie.
Ou plutôt, en faisaient partie.

Une fois de plus, pourquoi pas. Cela fait juste partie de la révision 2.0 par Richard qui, peu à peu, éloigne les publications précédentes de la version désormais développée. Et donc, par la force des choses, la rend moins attractive pour moi.
/Pierre

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par Uzz » sam. sept. 14, 2019 7:24 pm

En Sartar (et chez les Héortiens en général), les femmes sont très majoritairement initiées d'Ernalda et Ernalda représente en sorte de rôle modèle pour les qualités et caractéristiques féminines traditionnelles.

En dehors du Sartar, le culte d'Ernalda peut montrer de nombreuse autres facettes et correspondre à une place sociale différente. La liste de ses différents époux indique qu'elle a une place dans les imaginaires locaux différente d'une culture à l'autre.

Aucune de ces deux données n'est une nouveauté, ni une révision, ni n'a disparu dans les évolutions récentes du canon.

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » dim. sept. 15, 2019 10:41 am

Uzz a écrit :
sam. sept. 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Oui, mais ça fait combien en équivalent vache ?
Facile: une vache = 20 Lunars = 1 Roue

Sinon, Jeff vient de poster Sartar under the House of Sartar:
Among the first things Greg ever wrote about the Kingdom of Sartar was the following:

"<Sartar's> magic turned smart men into chieftains, good men into loyal followers, and enemies into pack beasts. It is said that he took over the valley without a fight, though that is an exaggeration since others did his fighting for him. But the transition was an easy one and he soon organized the robbers into a principality. After marrying the Feathered Horse Queen, he was named King and Dragon Pass rapidly grew in power and prestige.

Under Sartar's rule, the tribes turned from pillage to trade. Sartar and the Queen set up tax posts, guides, and treasuries. Sartar also built roads and forts to protect the traders from possible nomad raids. He fostered literacy, experimentation, and luxuriousness upon his subjects. His short-lived dynasty grew and soon would have rivalled any empire for sheer splendor had it survived."

When I was working with Greg on the Guide to Glorantha, we decided to go back to WBRM (i.e. le wargame White Bear & Red Moon / Dragon Pass / La Guerre des Héros) as a touchstone. RQG very much reflects the Glorantha of WBRM, the Redline Histories, Pavis, Cults of Terror, and King of Sartar. But it does require rethinking some of the assumptions from the HW (i.e. la gamme HeroWars / HeroQuest I) period. First and foremost - the nature of the Kingdom of Sartar itself.
La suite sur BRP
ou en dessous.
Spoiler:
Under the reign of the House of Sartar, Boldhome and the other cities were wealthy from trade. The Prince had substantial revenues at his disposal. Masons could build impressive stone buildings, grand temples to the Lightbringers could be founded - including markets, libraries, and hospitals, paved roads could facilitate trade, mercenaries could fight for the Prince, and so on. Caravans carrying goods and luxuries from all over the world traveled through WIlmskirk, Boldhome, and Jonstown, paying a toll for Sartar's protection (and for the convenience of the roads, inns, etc.).

Tribal kings, chiefs, priestesses, etc. all looked to the Prince for gifts and support. Cities bought large amounts grain and meat, and their citizens had the right to an allotment of the public stores. It should be reminded that New Pavis is stereotypically Sartarite in its layout, its political institutions (mayor, public granaries and warehouses, etc.). It is unusual in the presence of the Big Rubble, the nomads, and so many adventurers seeking treasure in the Rubble. It is not unusual in its institutions.

There's no question about it, under the rule of the House of Sartar, Sartar was rich. Probably richer than Tarsh (dispute its smaller population), definitely richer than most Lunar satrapies. This also helps to explain the Lunar Empire desire to conquer Sartar - instead of it being an unimportant backwaters, Sartar was a rich, strategically important kingdom that controlled the bulk of all trade between the Lunar Empire and the rest of the world (let's skip the Red-Haired Tribe and the Ralios caravans and whatever trade goes through the Janube Valley).

It wasn't the Kingdom of Tarsh that defeated Tarkalor and the Feathered Horse Queen at Grizzly Peak - it was the Heartland Army and the Red Emperor (the Lunar advance was stopped at the Battle of Dwarf Ford).

Trade continued during Lunar Occupation, although not at the levels seen during the rule of Sartar’s dynasty. The Etyries cult played a greater role in trade, although the Issaries caravans continued to travel between the Holy Country, the Lunar Empire, and Prax under the protection of the Lunar military. However, Lunar tax collectors and military leaders prospered more than the cities, as they took much of what used to go to city and tribal leaders. So during the Lunar Occupation, much of the traditional Sartarite elite became poorer, the cities stopped buying as much grain and meat from the farmers, and it all trickled down.

With Sartar’s liberation, the Lunar Empire is no longer able to tax trade through Dragon Pass but also there is no longer Lunar protection of caravans. With political disintegration, much of Dragon Pass has returned to the state of banditry that prevailed prior to Sartar’ arrival. That's the situation at the start of RQG.

This might explain some of my desire to linguistically clear the decks of "misleading" terminology like "cottar, carl, and thane" or of using Early Medieval Ireland as a model for understanding Sartar. Heck, if anything Classical Macedon or the Ghaznavids might be a better analogy (although those have lots of limitations as well). At the very least, it helps me see Sartar for the very unique place it is.

Anyways, good food for thought I hope!
Notes: Les Ghaznévides sont une dynastie musulmane, d'origine turque, fondée par Subuktigîn et qui régna de la fin du Xe siècle à la fin du XIIe siècle sur un empire s'étendant sur les régions du Khorâsan, de Ghaznî et du Panjâb.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazn%C3%A9vides

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par kridenow » dim. sept. 15, 2019 10:53 am

it does require rethinking some of the assumptions from the HW (i.e. la gamme HeroWars / HeroQuest I)
Pourquoi ? C'était pas évident qu'il voulait effacer cette période de publication ? :P
Comme c'est aussi le moment où je considère que Sartar est le plus abouti avec notamment Thunder Rebels (et croyant qu'enfin on allait passer à autre chose), pas une grande surprise que le Glorantha 2.0 ne me convienne pas :)
/Pierre

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par FaFaFa » dim. sept. 15, 2019 11:16 am

Moi non plus, ça ne me plait guère. C'est traditionnel pour Glorantha de revenir sur ce qui a été dit dans des suppléments précédents, mais ça n'énerve et pour l'instant j'aimais mieux la version d'avant. Enfin bon, j'attends de voir la suite, j'aurai peut-être de bonnes surprises...

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » dim. sept. 15, 2019 12:13 pm

De mon côté, faisant plutôt jouer des débutants concernant Glorantha, les changements (la pluspart de vocabulaire ou Elmal / Yelmalio, thème que je n'ai jamais abordé) n'ont guère d'impact, ma version de Glorantha n'étant pas raccord à 100% avec la version officielle de toutes façons. Comme tout le monde je suppose, vu les trous existants dans la description de G.

Perso, je dirais que l'approche actuelle (post 1625) permet quanf même pas mal de variations ludiques possibles.

Sartar (suite):
A few more morsels to think about - while Sartar was free, the city ring (which remember is chosen by a combination of tribal leaders, major temples, and the Prince) agree on various taxes (especially on traders), purchase grain and meat from the local farmers, and so on. The citizens of the city choose one member of the city ring as Mayor - who also gets to lead the militia.

During the Lunar Occupation, the rebelling tribes (like the Culbrea and Cinsina) have had to operate outside of that structure, but now that Sartar is liberated, there is much incentive to return to it, just now that the folk who make the decisions are mainly former rebels (and no Lunars at all). For a few seasons things are still "rebel-led" but how long before the city rings decide that it is not such a bad thing to welcome Etyries back and place Seven Mothers worshipers under their protection? Or maybe some cities do that, and others do not.

And when Kallyr dies, for a year there is no Prince. Perhaps the mayors become de facto regional warlords, and supplant the tribal kings?

After the Dragonrise, the times are a-changing!

Et concernant l'esclavage:
>Are there free persons who became semi-free or even unfree to pay their debts (or their parent's debts) ?

Yes. How common that is depends on the community. I suspect that is quite common in Esrolia and rarer in Sartar.
+
I'd actually say that the Noble standard of living in RQG is actually closer to Free Wealthy. Low Nobles are chieftains, chief priests, hangers on of the Prince. Middle Nobles are tribal kings like Queen Leika. And the High Nobility in Sartar is the house of Sartar itself.

Once you start looking at Esrolia and the Lunar Empire, it becomes that much of what Sartar considers "nobility" would just count as Free Wealthy there. A thane (I try to avoid some of the incredible confusion introduced by TR and ST about types of "thanes") is a part of the tribal leadership. Thanes, priests, scribes - all have higher ransoms than ordinary farmers. But from an Esrolian perspective, having 5 hides of land hardly makes you even a petty noble! Not when you have temples endowed with huge contributions of grain and resources, or part of the incredible wealth from trade, etc.

Esrolia has always been described as having a population of "oppressed peasants" (see RQ Companion) - about 30% are unfree, and about 25% are semi-free. The semi-free are mostly entire clans who owe service to the nobility and do not even have the rights to the land they work. The unfree are a combination of debt slavery (largely of semi-free folk slipping into outright slavery) and slaves purchased through trade - initially mostly from Maniria and Ralios, increasingly from the rest of the world.
Of course by terrestrial standards, its is still pretty low.
+
scott-martin:
The reference to "debt" initially roused my ruckus but from what I can intuit about the Esrolian system the Grandmothers have a real MGF decision point on their hands here. On the one hand, the disasters of 1621-3 killed a lot of debtor households outright, but an unusually large number of the survivors are still facing repeat crop failure and default, losing their freedom. However, a lot of the overseers are dead too so incorporating all of these formerly semi-free people into the system at once creates significant strain and raises the odds of at least sporadic revolt. MGF.
Yep. 1616-1626 witnessed huge social upheavals in Esrolia, on top of the dramatic transformation of Nochet from 1580 to 1600 (during which period the city doubled in size).
scott-martin:
Of course the Grandmothers as a group don't need to foreclose all these families. Ty Kora Tek probably manages the bankruptcies so argues for compliance while Asrelia at least superficially counsels forbearance but not everyone acts with their ultimate best interests in mind. Some people need to keep wealth flowing to support foreign obligations, status or simply to maintain urban food security . . . after the disasters people will be either supernaturally serene or completely risk averse. (These are of course the two faces of the Grandmother Goddess.)
Keep in mind that Esrolia is fundamentally Earth. And Earth accepts bondage. Lodril was enslaved beneath the Earth to build the Palace of Black Glass. Mortals were made to serve the gods - and most mortals are in bondage to the Earth. Plow, seed, weed, harvest, repeat. Several times a year. Those Asrelia bean-counters can drive a hard bargain for those who want access to the public granaries. For the enfranchised, that is a matter of right. For disenfranchised. Whereas Ty Kora Tek reminds us that we are all equals in death and sleep.

But the toughest ones those Ernalda temples that own all the land, and get contributions from everything going on. The Earth Mother is benevolent, she is generous, she is life-giving, but she can also sure be demanding! And you better meet her demands if you want to eat. Always remember, unlike Orlanthi or Lodril or Storm Bull, Ernalda doesn't have to do much to destroy mortals. She just needs to withhold her blessings.
scott-martin:
I suspect the importation of captives is an artifact of centuries of prosperity in Esrolia proper while the western hinterland deteriorates. (As far as I can tell it derives from the original colonization of Caladra and the Veskarthanites.) Obviously this is in the interest of the Trader Prince network when times are good enough in Esrolia that the Grandmothers don't have a ready excuse to foreclose local labor. However now the labor dynamics have changed and with refugees from elsewhere in the Winter zone streaming into town desperate for a meal there's less incentive to pay for barbarian slaves. Life is cheap and labor is only a little more expensive.
Yep. Nochet had food during the Great Winter. A lot of food. And no obligation to give it to non-citizens.
scott-martin:
This is an opportunity for anyone with a little cash and vision to buy and liberate a lot of human potential at a deep discount. I wouldn't be surprised if this is where new armies of the Hero Wars are created. The Grandmothers can go right on doing what they do until emergent realities force them to stop, but at least the foreign trade can be diverted to something more positive. After all, the world is ending and their business is crashing harder than a lot of things. Etyries may well have brought new and seductive accounting systems during the Red Earth era that are crashing the Grandmother credit models too, but that's another story.
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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par kridenow » dim. sept. 15, 2019 12:22 pm

7Tigers a écrit :
dim. sept. 15, 2019 12:13 pm
Perso, je dirais que l'approche actuelle (post 1625) permet quanf même pas mal de variations ludiques possibles.
Oui, clairement, on revient à une approche plus traditionnelle du jeu de rôle où le perso sartarite choisit sa divinité et tout le background de manière plus "libre" (pour autant que l'on se sente contraint par le background du jeu).
/Pierre

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » lun. sept. 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Sartar (suite), par Jeff:
I will confess - I suspect a big part of the change in Hero Wars was the result of David Dunham and I.
Our Taming of Dragon Pass campaign had a big influence on Hero Wars and on King of Dragon Pass - both of those were settlement games.
They might have correctly described pre-Sartar Sartarites (although I increasingly think we really didn't understand pre-Belintar Kethaela either), but they certainly are wrong for understanding Hero Wars era Sartar.
+
The King of Dragon Pass (and for that matter, our Taming of Dragon Pass campaign - which had a big influence on both KoDP and the HW material) doesn't describe Sartar.
It describes PRE-Sartar.
The game is set prior to Sartar's roads, cities, and trade.

With perfect 20/20 hind-sight, KoDP had more Anglo-Saxon window-dressing than was appropriate.
A great game, but we know the Sartarites look different and dress different from that.
But it is a computer game and it is perfectly fine for some of the window-dressing to be different.

If you find it helpful to throw on an Anglo-Saxon/Norse veneer on the Orlanthi - by all means, do it!
+
I'm not saying anything new here - all of the stuff in that original post comes from either WBRM or the history of Sartar Greg wrote back in 1981 (which became the Composite History of Dragon Pass (and The Report on the Orlanthi) in King of Sartar, but was actually written long before).
New Pavis is a Sartarite city - and its institutions, architecture, etc are Sartarite.
It has some adaptions to being in the River of Cradles - just like Roman colonies in Syria or Britain made adaptations to the local environment.
But a Sartarite who comes to New Pavis will find that city surprisingly familiar - even if the landscape, weather, and the animals are not.

As an aside, all of this helps me keep in mind that New Pavis is Sartarite city.
Want to see how Sartarite cities operate and don't want to wait until Boldhome and Jonstown descriptions get published?
Look at the Pavis materials for RQ2 or HQG.

New Pavis is also architecturally more Sartarite than folk give credit.
The main adaptations the Sartarites made in New Pavis are:
1. the roof is flat so that water can be gathered, instead of thatched or with tilted roofs of tile or wood; and
2. timber is much more expensive in New Pavis so it is not used as much for support except in public and wealthy buildings.
But Swenstown and New Pavis probably look a lot like each other except for the roofs.

The Jrusteli Pattern is something all of Sartar's cities used. It comes from the Holy Country (see Pavis City Guide page 14 / Classic Edition page 57 / Glorantha Classic 19).

Other than Sartar himself, only Dorasar and Terasarin managed to found cities. New Pavis in 1550, Alone in 1583.

Suggestions de Thomas W Iverson:
This is why it is OK to have Inns and Pawnshops in little towns. Sartar isn't a dump full of primitive rubes... unless you are trying to sucker some chumps into robbing, say, a dwarf for you.

This is why it is also OK to hang out on your tula, practising crappy subsistence agriculture aided by magic that requires planting the ritual fish along with the seeds as "Barntar kicks the Water Tribe's Hinder". Boring, sure, but there is a soap opera going in the background of various clanspeople, and you wouldn't abandon that social dynamism and fun for filthy lucre because this is NARRATIVE ART, right?

This is why it is also OK to meet some ne'er-do-well in a tavern who has a job for you. Easy coin (gold, even). Target is short of stature and ungroomed. What could go wrong? GOLD.

This is why it is OK to harangue your clan chief in a meadhall because he wants YOUR new (to you) iron sword that you and your gang of misfits ripped off a defeated dwarf who had the temerity to not be a human being and he can pry it out of your cold dead hands because you value FREEDOM and not some commie CLAN.

This is why it is OK to perform a heroquest to found a new clan after being declared an outlaw from your former clan... because EVERYTHING is (needs, even!) a heroquest... right?
---
Pick one or more. YGWV. Your Glorantha Will Vary. Your GAME Will Vary. Jeff's post is another great excuse to rationalize (read: shoehorn in) whatever stuff you want. Such as:

*"Yep, we are civilized enough to have a job board here for experienced, or perhaps disposable, Troublestabbers. Pay cuts (no pun intended) for missing limbs, but bonuses for loot."

*"To reintegrate our clan into the tribe and kingdom after this Lunar fiasco, we need to follow in Sartar's steps and bind our clans together via great deeds and questing on the Heroplane."

*"Our unique super-team of trolls, people, and weirdos need to defeat this broo band to open the trade route back up. Hope it isn't just the opening fight in a string of escalating battles culminating in a showdown with a shadowy mastermind!"

Et MOB a encore rappelé que toutes les variations possibles de Glorantha seront possibles /acceptées dans The Jonstown Compendium.
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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » mar. sept. 17, 2019 8:37 pm

Sartar (suite), par Jeff:
In HQG, we dropped carl, cottar, and thrall. I wish I had done that in the Guide to be honest. I don't think those are even good translations of the Orlanthi terms.

Carl just means "free man" - which is fine, but that already exists in English. I suspect the Orlanthi word for "free person" is a pretty important word for them. Greg and I hypothesised that it is something like Karling, but honestly that's just a cheap use of Old German. And I agree that Theyalan is not PIE (Proto-Indo-European) - for one thing the names we have don't come anywhere close to it.

Cottar means "someone who lives in a cottage" - which isn't quite what a semi-free landless tenant in Sartar is. I like semi-free because ties into Free. Also I think that is the Orlanthi word.

Thane - Greg operated on the belief it meant "horse man" when actually it means "servant" - which is not the basis of the title
.

Thrall - another Norse word when we have a perfectly good English word "slave", "Unfree" might work better though as I suspect that is the Orlanthi word.

So until I find a linguist I enjoy working with who doesn't just want to make PIE but creates something that sounds Orlanthi - I am happy mainly using good English words.
+
> Is Sartar's title of "Prince" (instead of, say, High King or the like) due to some Western influence?

Nope. Just a literal translation of "Princeps" or "First".

Note Wiki:
Princeps (plural: principes) is a Latin word meaning "first in time or order; the first, foremost,[1] chief, the most eminent, distinguished, or noble; the first man, first person".[2] As a title, "princeps" originated in the Roman Republic wherein the leading member of the Senate was designated princeps senatus.[3] It is primarily associated with the Roman emperors as an unofficial title first adopted by Augustus in 23 BC. Its use in this context continued until the reign of Diocletian at the end of the third century. He preferred the title of dominus, meaning "lord" or "master". As a result, the Roman Empire from Augustus to Diocletian is termed the "principate" (principatus) and from Diocletian onwards as the "dominate" (dominatus). Other historians define the reign of Augustus to Severus Alexander as the Principate, and the period afterwards as the "Autocracy".[4]
+
> I wonder if in-universe, the same word is used for "King" as in "tribal King", and "King" as in "King of Dragon Pass". It's a linguistic oddity that the Prince of Sartar rules over a slew of (tribal) kings and queens.

So did the Roman Princeps, who ruled over kings, queens, and client republics.

Personally I currently think the Orlanthi have the following words:

Chief: this is the big man of a clan, and also the chief Orlanth priest for the clan. This is used in one version or another in every Theyalan culture.

King: this is the Rex of a tribe. This is the main title of a tribal king in Dragon Pass, Peloria, Ralios, and Fronela.

King: this is the paramount chief of a tribe. This is used mainly in Heortland, Maniria, and Umathela.

Queen: this is the priestess-leader of an Esrolian city or tribe AND the ranking high priestess of Ernalda.

Prince: this is the "first leader" of a group of tribes or clans. A prince can also be a Rex "over" all the other tribal rexes.

And each is a different word. And to get more complicated, the same word gets used regardless of whether the office holder is male or female (Prince Kallyr, King Leika, etc.), and there is another word that means consort-of-<office>.

> Can I get a little more idea / context on what is the difference between the two kings?

At the risk of gross simplification:

An Orlanth Rex needs to be acclaimed by the priests of the tribe, but once acclaimed he has a LOT of power over them. That's Alakoring's magic. You better select the best person for the job, because once he is there, he has the power to compel. Sartar - surprise surprise - was Orlanth Rex, and so are his heirs (including Argrath). You agree to make Tarkalor Prince, and he has the power to give Yelmalio land and let the Yelmalio cultists form their own tribe.

A non.-Rex king is just the paramount chief. The chiefs agree that Big Chief gets to be king. But Big Chief is just that - a big chief. The priests can oppose him and even bring him down. Same with the chiefs. The chiefs and priests have the real power, not the king. This was the situation in the First and Second Age.

Now poor old Temertain wasn't this. He never performed the final step of his acclamation, to begin with. And the Lunars weren't going to let him be the Orlanth Rex of Sartar - they were much happier with him being the *almost qualifies as Prince* Prince. Sure eventually he'll get around to finishing the ceremony that gives him power. But Estal Donge is so captivating! And look - iron Brithini statuary!
+
If we wanted a purely Gloranthan set of titles, we can guess that the Orlanthi use the following (I am not sure whether Theyalan language is gendered or not, so am just using "man" as the default for person even though that is probably incorrect):

Free man - this is a full member of the community, male or female. These households do not need to serve someone else to survive.

Unfree man - this is someone who needs to serve someone else to survive.

Horse man - this is a member of the martial aristocracy, who is given land and/or livestock by others so that they might be full-time professional warriors.

House man or hall man - this is a personal bodyguard of a high status person. I increasingly use "palace" instead of "hall" but the terms are basically synonymous. "Big House" might be best.

God-talker - this is somebody who serves as a part-time holy person. They speak "to" the gods.

God-voice - this is somebody who serves as a full-time holy person. They speak "for" the gods.

Wyter-voice - this is the leader of a clan or kinship group. Also called Chief God Voice for the kinship group.

War Lord - this the tribal ruler.

Earth queen - this is the high priestess of the Ernalda cult.

Storm King's voice - this is the tribal ruler of the Rex subcult.

And so on. Some of these terms were around since the Dawn or even the God Time (free, unfree, god-talker, god-voice, war lord), others are later developments (horse man, hall man, Storm King's voice, etc.)
+, dans le même sujet sur FB:
My purpose in the original post was to point out how Greg originally described Sartar, and how Sartar was described in Greg's stories and writings. Which means cities, roads, and a wealthy ruling dynasty. All of that got lost when the Lunars occupied Sartar (longer in our lifetime than in Sartar itself).

None of this should be new to anyone who read HQG or RQG, except that the implications of how important trade was to Sartar only really becomes apparent now that it is liberated. If your assumption was that the HW material described life for the rebellious Sartarites during the Occupation, that's fine - it just means that things are going to be changing a lot now that the Sartarites rule their own cities.
+
> Jordan Etherington When you say citizens had access to a portion of the public stores, do you mean like a social safety net?

Famine is a huge threat for Gloranthan cities - if you consider that 1 in 8 harvests is a failure. So the city ring purchases/takes/receives grain and livestock from the tribes and stores it. Citizens are entitled to a portion of that grain and meat - based not on need but simply a right off citizenship.

Speculators in times of famine are another concern, so cities try to hold onto as much of its foods supplies as possible until it is necessary. At the same time, many citizens depend on their allotment of city food - so obviously there is tension there.

Although this applies to Jonstown, it could just as easily apply to Pavis, Boldhome, etc.:

The city of Jonstown, recognizing long term fluctuation in the food supply, purchases and distributes a large percentage of the city’s food in order to stymie speculators and maintain stability. Though this is paid for through taxes and service, access to nominally free food is a cherished right of the Jonstown citizenry.
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7Tigers
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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » mer. sept. 25, 2019 3:22 pm

Comme je fais un break avec Casus no, les news pour les scénarios gratuits RQG et HRQ du 10 octobre prochain sont sur le forum officiel SDC:
https://deadcrows.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8037#p8036
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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par petit mec » mer. sept. 25, 2019 4:18 pm

7Tigers a écrit :
mer. sept. 25, 2019 3:22 pm
Comme je fais un break avec Casus no, les news pour les scénarios gratuits RQG et HRQ du 10 octobre prochain sont sur le forum officiel SDC:
https://deadcrows.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8037#p8036

Tu fais un break de combien de temps ?
Parce que s'il n'y a pas de Tigre à mettre dans le moteur de Casus No, ça poste beaucoup moins...

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par tauther » mer. sept. 25, 2019 5:25 pm

Vu que 7Tigers est modo sur le forum des Corbacs, il doit sans-doute essayer de generer plus d'activiter là-bas...

(c'est un message subliminal pour dire que c'est la-bas que ça se passe. ;) )

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » mer. sept. 25, 2019 9:10 pm

Manque de temps surtout en ce moment que je préfère passer à jouer...

D'ailleurs, en futur time killer, Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind vient d'être annoncé pour le 17 octobre prochain pour les versions PC & macOS:

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Re: Glorantha : La Guerre des Héros commence (enfin !)

Message par 7Tigers » jeu. oct. 10, 2019 11:07 am



Hormis le pack des batiments en 3D, les quelques exemplaires restant de la VF de Glorantha : The Gods War sont disponibles dans certaines boutiques comme philibertnet ou agorajeux entre autres.

Glorantha : The Gods War contient 4 factions et Glorantha : The Gods War - Empires 4 factions supplémentaires (+ le plateau pour jouer de 5 à 8 joueurs).
Attention: Les 2 boites ne seront probablement jamais rééditées en VF.
Perso, je dirais qu'elles forment un tout et que ce serait bien dommage de ne prendre que la boite de base.

Image

Image

Les autres boites sont multilingues et proposent juste des variations (figurines recrutables ou monstres qui mettent la pagaille), pas indispensable:
Races Aînées
Dragons
Chaos Monsters
Cosmic Monsters


KS à venir en début d'année pour des unités alternatives pour les 8 factions.

2 plateaux VF de faction ont malheureusement des petites erreurs (Ciel dans la boite de base, Ténèbres dans Empires) donc
voici les plateaux d'Empires VF corrigés (sachant que les erreurs sont sur Ciel, carac du Phénix, et Ténèbres le premier bloc du troisième fragment, "unité OU bâtiment"):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtq5qyids0ohv ... s.zip?dl=0

Et les dés rouges RuneQuest de Q-WorkShop sont également disponibles dans certaines boutiques françaises comme Phiphi:

Image
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